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learning that way … no one's ever
going to learn that way again. But
learning that way was great.
SL: I cut on two films on mag, and I
am so glad to have had that experience.
Because it was an eye-opening
experience. And I got to work with the
great Warren Hamilton, who was one of
the great old-school film editors … who
did his cue sheets in INK!
GR: Oh yeah.
SL: But yeah, one impetus for The
Hollywood Sound Museum is sharing
that whole mag era. I have a big roll of
mag right behind me as a ceremonial
reminder. It looks so archaic now. And
you try to explain it to students, and it's
just mind-boggling.
GR: This is why the Museum—one of
the fun elements of your Museum,
when it opens—is going to be the
equipment. It does remind me of
when you go to Williamsburg and see
the old blacksmith!
SL:
GR: You can't believe that ANYONE…
Or you go to Abraham Lincoln's
house in Springfield, Illinois, and
you say, "THAT'S what they used
for a toilet?!?" So you have the old
equipment…
SL: Yeah … (As I pick up the reel of mono
mag single-stripe behind me.) Stripe! One
channel!
GR: Yeah! Like that! With a balance
stripe on it! Yeah, we used to have
little things like … we would cut our
soundtracks with fill. Spacer or fill.
Which was, essentially, film rejected
or already out of circulation films.
They were real films! Ben Burtt, over
at Sprockets—then Skywalker—used
to find, in the spacer, scenes from
films—cool films—and he would take
them!
SL: Save 'em! We'd do that, too!
GR: He would actually cut sound to
them! He would actually cut sound
to a movie that he found! This is how
crazy Ben was! He would take the
throw-away film and he would cut
sound for it!
SL: That's great. That's funny because
when I was working, the fill that we
would get … there were tons and tons of
prints of Star Wars that had been taken
out of circulation. With a big scratch
down the middle so you wouldn't exhibit
it again. I saw so many prints of Star
Wars go by. It was pretty funny.
Let's get back to some of your early
projects. We have something in common
that we've both done a bit of work for
Imagineering, which was really fun.
Some of your early projects were Captain
EO and Star Tours.
GR: Well, the first one I did was Star
Tours. For obvious reasons, they
came to Lucasfilm to do Star Tours.
It was great for me, because I met
the people at Imagineering, like Tom
Fitzgerald and others. Captain EO,
same thing—another George Lucas
connection.
Captain EO is… I should write a
book someday about the experience
of Captain EO, which is I think
probably still the most expensive
per-minute movie ever made. The
most top-heavy. We would have
playbacks of the mix usually in the
Park, with George Lucas, Francis
Coppola, Walter Murch, Michael
Eisner, Jeffrey Katzenberg, and
Michael Jackson! You know, my God
… this is the '80s!
I did Honey, I Shrunk the Audience,
Muppet Vision 3-D … but what was
great about it, it was dedicated
spaces. So you could put sound …
you know, "Statler & Waldorf" have
their own speaker, "Swedish Chef"
has his own speaker… and Honey,
I Shrunk the Audience, we had
speakers in the floor, so the sound
of rats would come through the
theater! I was so lucky to work on
those things. And I did Galaxy's Edge
in Star Wars Land at Disneyland,
which was one of my favorite things
to do, because I could create the
ambiences of this big space with
hidden speakers. I put in little
creature sounds … my hope was that
little kids would hear little creatures
running around in the vegetation,
and leave their parents and run into
the trees!
SL: I was actually lucky
to take a walking tour just before it
opened. None of the sound was running,
but they were telling us about all the
little tricks that you guys did. The big
ride, the big Empire ride (Rise of the
Resistance) really utilizes everything
that the Imagineers have come up with
to this point! It's just astounding. And I
did catch that damn scream in there, too!
That was pretty good!
GR: The Wilhelm, you mean? Yeah.
It's showing up everywhere, that's
for sure. You know that—not to
discourage anybody—but Ben Burtt
himself was just—he's a little tired of
it when it grew out of his control.
SL: Oh, I know.
GR: I'm partially responsible, too,
because I'm going to put it in where
I can.
SL: I'm probably one of the most guilty
because I put it all on my website way
back when, and basically Pandora's Box
was ripped open. I apologized very early
on. I turned it into a cult, basically … and
I feel really really bad about it.
(Look for "The Story of the Wilhelm
Scream" in the Fall 2020 issue of
MPSE Wavelength … and Anna
Quinlan's upcoming documentary,
The Wilhelm Scream.)
GR: It's okay, though. It's nice. You
know what it is … it's a good thing.
Because it's a sound story that a lot
of people know. And sound is such a
receding art. It's an art that no one
really knows much about. Until your
Museum opens and people will learn
that way! There's a sound story that
a lot of people know.
SL: Thank you! The truth is, there
are actually a lot of sound effects like
that, that have gotten even more use
than Wilhelm. But they're just not as
notorious. I mean, I'm sure you have a lot
of favorite "classic effects" you've used
here and there.
