Issue link: https://digital.copcomm.com/i/1469840
C A S Q U A R T E R L Y I S U M M E R 2 0 2 2 21 transparent experience of that space. This goes back to that non-compromised frame line. Getting out in the desert, it's hot and it's cold, but these places were amazing. The Jordan Wadi Rum Desert is where I had some deep experience working on the Martian. First you land at basecamp, which is a series of plastic runners and large containers. Then you make preparations to move over the sand. We traveled in small off-road vehicles that move at semi-high speed, which turns into a series of ruts and vibrations that is insanely hard on the equipment. You'd like to think you can just build stuff into bags and go small, but there's some cart work to be done and dust to be kept out of the faders. It requires a build that might be different than what you use out in the studios. You have to make sure your equipment is reliable, and that you have backups of everything. That means going big and small at the same time and always being ready to move through caverns and over sand. The desert is a great acoustic environment that invites intimate performances. And once you are out there, sometimes it's just about not making footprints. Did you have any instances where you focused on recording sound effects? Mac: Outside of normal dialogue, my favorite effect we captured together for the spice crawler was on a scout with Denis, and Denis picked it up first. We were in this resort- slash-gateway to the endless desert in Abu Dhabi. The desert and resort are both building in opposite directions as fast as they can, with heavy machinery always working in the sand. I know that [supervising sound editors] Mark Mangini and Theo Green worked hard to create soundscapes that aren't electronic but have to work with some concept of reality. So, we got some equipment to capture these machines sliding down sand dunes and then crawling back up making tennis courts or whatever. They were controlled slides, but it was dangerous. Ron, the use of perspective and reverb on the dialogue really helped to put me into the space in this film. Is that something that just comes instinctually as part of the process when you are mixing, or is that something that required a lot of experimentation? Doug Hemphill CAS: I remember Ron and Denis and Joe [Walker] discussing the reverb. Ron Bartlett CAS: Yeah, they definitely have an aesthetic they like, and I try to follow that, of course. It's natural for me to put perspective into a track, but I never try to cross the line to where I'm losing intelligibility, which is pretty easy to do. As soon as you put a little perspective in, it's so easy to lose intelligibility if you're not careful. Now, there are certain moments in the film where you're not exactly supposed to hear every word. A good example is the "Gom Jabbar" [pain box] scene. It starts it off where you can hear the dialogue very clearly, but then it gets lost a bit in the music and the emotion. That's all on purpose, and truly what Scoring mixer Alan Meyerson CAS Denis wanted. It's all about the story and you need to follow that emotional ride, that's the main thing. What are your thoughts on compression regarding intelligibility? Ron: While mixing, I tend to use clip gain and EQ automation a lot. If you look at my clip gain line you're like, "What the hell is that?" People always comment when they're mixing with me, "Your EQ is like a wave, it's constantly moving." That's because I mix dialogue minutely; I'm constantly going after syllables. It's what makes sense to me and how I hear it. If I'm turning down a "T" or an "S," I'm doing it with clip gain and EQ, and they're both constantly shifting and moving. [As a result], I end up using less compression because I'm doing it manually. Doug: I will say at this point that Ron is the best person I've ever worked with at getting dialogue through—and I've worked with everybody. Ron has immense respect for the audience and making sure they can hear the dialogue. Ron: Thanks, man. I pay Doug a lot of money to say stuff like that. (Both laugh) Alan Meyerson CAS: It's the same with music; clip gain's been a huge upswing in terms of how we manage level. A lot of times, I just have a little bit of general compression on just to make the whole thing just punch a little louder. It's hard with any compressor for you to really nail the releases and the attacks perfectly, avoiding the front-end transient clipping. While working on Gemini Man with Ron and Doug, I would come to the dub often. It was fun watching these guys in their native domain and how they manage audio, and look at what the similarities and differences are in how I manage music. We use a lot of similar tools, so I have a little bit of envy sometimes. But then I'm like, "Oh sh*t, that's cool, I like what he's doing there!"