Issue link: https://digital.copcomm.com/i/1469840
C A S Q U A R T E R L Y I S U M M E R 2 0 2 2 23 Doug: Well, if we haven't figured it out by now, we never will (laughs). It all comes down to taste. You know Alan has it, Ron has it… Ron: Doug has it. It's not a "technical craft" when you look at what we do. It's a very intangible artform. Doug: I think the difference between being a craftsman and an artist is what you bring to the table. Are you willing to put your emotion and your personal self into this project? Michael Mann once said to me [that] he judges filmmakers on how much of themselves they put up there on the screen, and that changed the way I think about what we do. You gotta have the courage to put yourself out there. Ron: Look at what Alan was talking about and how much passion he put into all those tracks. Yeah, it's his job, but he does it because he really cares. Alan: I always find that I'm my worst judge. No one gets to this point in their careers by just grazing along and not putting their heart into it. I think that this film, probably more than anything I've worked on, when I went to see it in the theater, I couldn't hear the mixing at all, but I could hear the power of the thought that went into the sound. It was a no-brainer that it was going to win the Academy Award. Doug, when you get the sound design from Mark Mangini and Theo Green, where do you start? Doug: Without a doubt, on this film, I got some of the best sound design I've ever received in my life. Like these other guys here, I'm a creative person. As soon as I hear a sound or music or dialogue, I start thinking creatively, and that's what they expect of me. If it doesn't sound better after I mix it, then you've got the wrong guy. The Dune people are a family. We speak to each other with respect, and we all have ideas and that's how it works. It's amazing. Ron: A lot of people just grab their faders and do their thing, but Doug always stretches out of that box. He's talking to the editor and saying, "Hey, what if you did this?" or "Oh, can you give me something like this?" He stretches them, pushes them, and comes up with some of the coolest stuff. Doug: In a creative endeavor, your failures define your successes. If you do something that's terrible, then, OK, that's terrible, what's the opposite of that? Ron: Yeah, if you want to touch on "the voice," the same thing happened with that. Way early on, we did tests on the voice, like six or seven each, and never listened to each other's concepts. Presented them all to Denis, and he said, "Yeah … no." So, we started listening to each other's and talking about what we did, so we didn't do the same thing again. That speaks to what Doug said about failures. When we present something to Denis to see how it works, if it fails, so what? What else you got? Now you gotta really scratch your brain to do something cool. It really ups your game. And that's the beauty of working with that guy, he very politely and subtly pushes you to those levels that you might not have discovered. Alan: When we were working on Black Hawk Down, Hans had this eight-minute suite. I had spent a day and half mixing it. Hans comes in, he listens to six bars, hits stop and says, "You're mixing the wrong movie." But it's learning. As long as you can get your ego out of the way, that's a valid comment. You're still doing your job. That is your job, to define what you want. And part of that is eliminating what you don't want. You know one of the things I love about being involved in filmmaking as opposed to when I was in the record business is filmmaking is very tribal. You get in there with your village. And you do this thing together. I like to have feedback, and I like to feel like I'm part of something larger than just me in a room pushing faders.